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	<title>Comments for Rhinosplode</title>
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		<title>Comment on Growing uncertainty by Mark Pennington</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/growing-uncertainty/#comment-1271</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Pennington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=698#comment-1271</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the key lines of division within grammar instruction (meaning syntax, word choice, usage, punctuation, and even spelling—a catch-all term that most English language-arts teachers use to describe the “stuff” that we “have to , but don’t want to” teach) have been drawn between those who favor part to whole and whole to part instruction. As a brief aside… isn’t this much akin to the graphophonic (phonics-based) and whole language reading debate? Anyway, here is my take on the assumptions of both positions:

Advocates of part to whole instruction believe that front-loading instruction in the discrete parts of language will best enable students to apply these parts to the whole process of writing. Following are the key components of this inductive approach.

1. Memorization of the key terminology and definitions of grammar to provide a common language of instruction.
2. Identification of grammatical constructions leads to application.
3. Familiarity with the rules of grammar leads to correct application.
4. Teaching the components of sentence construction leads to application.
5. Distrust of one’s own oral language as a grammatical filter .

Advocates of whole to part instruction believe that back-loading instruction in the discrete parts of language, as is determined by needs of the writing task, will best enable students to write fluently and meaningfully. Following are the key components of this deductive approach.

1. Minimal memorization of the key terminology and definitions of grammar and minimal practice in identification of grammatical constructions.
2. Connection to one’s oral language is essential to inform fluent and effective writing.
3. Reading and listening to exemplary literature and poetry provides the models that students need to mimic and revise as they develop their own writing style.
4. Minimal error analysis.
5. Teaching writing as a process with a focus on coherence will best enable students to apply the discreet parts such as subjects, predicates, parts of speech, phrases, clauses, sentences, and transitions to say something meaningful.

Of course, how teachers align themselves within the Great Grammar Debate (See http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/grammar_mechanics/the-great-grammar-debate/) is not necessarily an &quot;either-or&quot; decision. Most teachers apply bits and pieces of each approach to teaching grammar. I take a stab on how to integrate the inductive and deductive approaches in How to Integrate Grammar and Writing Instruction (See http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/grammar_mechanics/how-to-integrate-grammar-and-writing-instruction/).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the key lines of division within grammar instruction (meaning syntax, word choice, usage, punctuation, and even spelling—a catch-all term that most English language-arts teachers use to describe the “stuff” that we “have to , but don’t want to” teach) have been drawn between those who favor part to whole and whole to part instruction. As a brief aside… isn’t this much akin to the graphophonic (phonics-based) and whole language reading debate? Anyway, here is my take on the assumptions of both positions:</p>
<p>Advocates of part to whole instruction believe that front-loading instruction in the discrete parts of language will best enable students to apply these parts to the whole process of writing. Following are the key components of this inductive approach.</p>
<p>1. Memorization of the key terminology and definitions of grammar to provide a common language of instruction.<br />
2. Identification of grammatical constructions leads to application.<br />
3. Familiarity with the rules of grammar leads to correct application.<br />
4. Teaching the components of sentence construction leads to application.<br />
5. Distrust of one’s own oral language as a grammatical filter .</p>
<p>Advocates of whole to part instruction believe that back-loading instruction in the discrete parts of language, as is determined by needs of the writing task, will best enable students to write fluently and meaningfully. Following are the key components of this deductive approach.</p>
<p>1. Minimal memorization of the key terminology and definitions of grammar and minimal practice in identification of grammatical constructions.<br />
2. Connection to one’s oral language is essential to inform fluent and effective writing.<br />
3. Reading and listening to exemplary literature and poetry provides the models that students need to mimic and revise as they develop their own writing style.<br />
4. Minimal error analysis.<br />
5. Teaching writing as a process with a focus on coherence will best enable students to apply the discreet parts such as subjects, predicates, parts of speech, phrases, clauses, sentences, and transitions to say something meaningful.</p>
<p>Of course, how teachers align themselves within the Great Grammar Debate (See <a href="http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/grammar_mechanics/the-great-grammar-debate/)" rel="nofollow">http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/grammar_mechanics/the-great-grammar-debate/)</a> is not necessarily an &#8220;either-or&#8221; decision. Most teachers apply bits and pieces of each approach to teaching grammar. I take a stab on how to integrate the inductive and deductive approaches in How to Integrate Grammar and Writing Instruction (See <a href="http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/grammar_mechanics/how-to-integrate-grammar-and-writing-instruction/)" rel="nofollow">http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/grammar_mechanics/how-to-integrate-grammar-and-writing-instruction/)</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Growing uncertainty by becky</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/growing-uncertainty/#comment-1267</link>
		<dc:creator>becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=698#comment-1267</guid>
		<description>The Atlantic, for a brief moment, published excerpts from recent fiction with a tiny accompanying paragraph about the diction, and exactly why the excerpts, which always sounded cool, were so cool.  It was gone in a few months along with all my other favorite Atlantic features.  Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Atlantic, for a brief moment, published excerpts from recent fiction with a tiny accompanying paragraph about the diction, and exactly why the excerpts, which always sounded cool, were so cool.  It was gone in a few months along with all my other favorite Atlantic features.  Sigh.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Because we have them. by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/because-we-have-them/#comment-1263</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=675#comment-1263</guid>
		<description>But then again, Todd, when you &quot;teach&quot; a text, what exactly are you doing?  I&#039;ve been trying to figure that one out for years.  If I&#039;m teaching my kids &lt;i&gt;Macbeth&lt;/i&gt;, am I telling them the plot, describing the characters, or putting forth my interpretation? 
That&#039;s what I can&#039;t figure out.  And I know I should&#039;ve figured it out EIGHT YEARS AGO, but I still haven&#039;t, and that&#039;s a big reason why I&#039;d much rather be a rock star than an English teacher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But then again, Todd, when you &#8220;teach&#8221; a text, what exactly are you doing?  I&#8217;ve been trying to figure that one out for years.  If I&#8217;m teaching my kids <i>Macbeth</i>, am I telling them the plot, describing the characters, or putting forth my interpretation?<br />
That&#8217;s what I can&#8217;t figure out.  And I know I should&#8217;ve figured it out EIGHT YEARS AGO, but I still haven&#8217;t, and that&#8217;s a big reason why I&#8217;d much rather be a rock star than an English teacher.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Because we have them. by Eric Hoefler</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/because-we-have-them/#comment-1261</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Hoefler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=675#comment-1261</guid>
		<description>This is (for me) such an interesting and difficult problem. I&#039;m torn between the obvious need to focus on the skills and critical thinking/analysis on the one hand and the desire to provide a context for the development of all this on the other.

Of course, there are such a range of texts I can use to teach the skills: from blogs to articles to essays to modern authors, etc. And I did use those. But I also wondered/worried about how much context I was providing (or not providing). In an American Lit course, for example, how do you not teach Hawthorne, Hemingway, Dickinson, Faulkner? Hirsch isn&#039;t without merit, even if there are good arguments against him.

I settled on this approach: sketch the outline/context; teach a few specific works that corresponded to important movements and/or specific skills; supplement the rest with a variety of modern writings/writers that I found engaging and thought appropriate, likely to appeal, and relevant to the moves/skills I&#039;m focusing on. I never stopped worrying about where I might be cheating my students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is (for me) such an interesting and difficult problem. I&#8217;m torn between the obvious need to focus on the skills and critical thinking/analysis on the one hand and the desire to provide a context for the development of all this on the other.</p>
<p>Of course, there are such a range of texts I can use to teach the skills: from blogs to articles to essays to modern authors, etc. And I did use those. But I also wondered/worried about how much context I was providing (or not providing). In an American Lit course, for example, how do you not teach Hawthorne, Hemingway, Dickinson, Faulkner? Hirsch isn&#8217;t without merit, even if there are good arguments against him.</p>
<p>I settled on this approach: sketch the outline/context; teach a few specific works that corresponded to important movements and/or specific skills; supplement the rest with a variety of modern writings/writers that I found engaging and thought appropriate, likely to appeal, and relevant to the moves/skills I&#8217;m focusing on. I never stopped worrying about where I might be cheating my students.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Because we have them. by Todd</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/because-we-have-them/#comment-1260</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=675#comment-1260</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I&#039;m with you on teaching skills and not authors. I&#039;ve thought that way for a long time. That&#039;s my point, that the authors I teach are there to help my students move to where I know they need to be. But there are still a lot of areas about teaching skills that I do not know how to do. Like you said, &quot;figuring out how to teach the skills.&quot;

There&#039;s no getting around at least a small bit of teaching authors and texts. Even if you choose to place your main focus elsewhere, anytime you use a text in order to teach a skill you&#039;re also teaching that text and that author. And you have to consider the texts you have at your disposal when deciding scope and sequence of a course. I just regularly feel like I&#039;m giving no real instruction on how to read or think better, only chances to practice other ways of doing same. This year, I&#039;m trying to move to more conferences with students as a way to teach skills because that&#039;s where I&#039;ve seen the most growth in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m with you on teaching skills and not authors. I&#8217;ve thought that way for a long time. That&#8217;s my point, that the authors I teach are there to help my students move to where I know they need to be. But there are still a lot of areas about teaching skills that I do not know how to do. Like you said, &#8220;figuring out how to teach the skills.&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no getting around at least a small bit of teaching authors and texts. Even if you choose to place your main focus elsewhere, anytime you use a text in order to teach a skill you&#8217;re also teaching that text and that author. And you have to consider the texts you have at your disposal when deciding scope and sequence of a course. I just regularly feel like I&#8217;m giving no real instruction on how to read or think better, only chances to practice other ways of doing same. This year, I&#8217;m trying to move to more conferences with students as a way to teach skills because that&#8217;s where I&#8217;ve seen the most growth in the past.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Thing of the Day: Oliver Sacks by Sarah</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/thing-of-the-day-oliver-sacks/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=596#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>Well, cool.
You know the part I like the best is the stuff not so ed.
Just fascinated by your blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, cool.<br />
You know the part I like the best is the stuff not so ed.<br />
Just fascinated by your blog.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Thing of the Day: Oliver Sacks by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/thing-of-the-day-oliver-sacks/#comment-1253</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=596#comment-1253</guid>
		<description>Heh...nice...yeah, Edublogs was helling me with all their ads, and I also don&#039;t really care enough about edtech stuff to keep up with it.  I&#039;d rather do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh&#8230;nice&#8230;yeah, Edublogs was helling me with all their ads, and I also don&#8217;t really care enough about edtech stuff to keep up with it.  I&#8217;d rather do this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Thing of the Day: Oliver Sacks by Sarah</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/thing-of-the-day-oliver-sacks/#comment-1252</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=596#comment-1252</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s that Elmer Fudd thing in his voice I love about Sacks.
I just found that you quit edublogging and I&#039;m reading here. Wow....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s that Elmer Fudd thing in his voice I love about Sacks.<br />
I just found that you quit edublogging and I&#8217;m reading here. Wow&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A message from a friend in Iran by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/a-message-from-a-friend-in-iran/#comment-1251</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=657#comment-1251</guid>
		<description>No problem...it&#039;s kind of the least I can do, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem&#8230;it&#8217;s kind of the least I can do, I think.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A message from a friend in Iran by jill</title>
		<link>http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/a-message-from-a-friend-in-iran/#comment-1249</link>
		<dc:creator>jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinosplode.wordpress.com/?p=657#comment-1249</guid>
		<description>thank you for posting this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you for posting this.</p>
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